In a Monday morning segment for the WarRoom titled, Americans Need A Containment Policy for the Administrative State "Untamed Beast,” Steve Bannon and Mark Chenoweth, President and Chief Legal Officer at the New Civil Liberties Alliance (NCLA), talked about the growing power of the administrative state and spoke about the need for what they called a “containment policy” to protect American civil liberties.

“All legislative power is in Congress… They’re not supposed to delegate any of this legislative power, and the administrative state has done so, and the courts have let Congress get away with doing it,” Chenoweth said.

“If you don’t get control over this… it’s an untamed beast right now. We need a leash, we need ways of containing what the administrative state has become,” Bannon said in agreement with Chenoweth.

Chenoweth emphasized the non-partisan nature of NCLA’s work, targeting both Republican and Democratic administrations for their contributions to the unchecked growth of federal agencies.

Chenoweth credits Philip Hamburger, the founder of NCLA, as the intellectual force behind the organization’s mission. Hamburger’s vision centers on placing “constitutional guardrails” around the administrative state, which Bannon and Chenoweth describe as a “fourth branch of government” that was never envisioned by the framers of the US Constitution.

This administrative state comprises numerous federal agencies like the Federal Communications Commission (FCC), the Federal Trade Commission (FTC), and the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB), which generate thousands of pages of rules and regulations that profoundly impact citizens’ lives.

“The administrative state is that alphabet soup of agencies… that are passing the rules and regulations that at this point have a lot bigger effect on your life than what Congress is doing,” Chenoweth told Bannon.

Chenoweth points out that the growth of the administrative state results from Congress delegating too much legislative power to these agencies, leading to a significant erosion of individual liberties. He argues that many federal agencies operate beyond their legal authority, implementing regulations without proper legislative backing.

The conversation also touches on the term “swamp” used by critics to describe the entrenched bureaucracy they refer to as the “Administrative State” and its excessive spending. Chenoweth and Bannon assert that tackling this administrative state is crucial for effective government control. Bannon highlights the importance of this issue, stating, “If you don’t attack, if you don’t go after this, you can never control government.”

Chenoweth discusses several significant Supreme Court cases that could reshape the relationship between federal agencies and American citizens. The Jarkesy v. SEC case stands out, focusing on the right to a jury trial under the Bill of Rights.

Chenoweth argues that administrative proceedings often deny individuals their right to a jury trial, which could change if the court rules to preserve this fundamental right.

Another critical case is Loper Bright Enterprises v. Raimondo, which addresses the principle of Chevron deference. This 1984 precedent allows courts to defer to agency interpretations of ambiguous statutes. Chenoweth criticizes this deference, stating, “You and I can’t get a fair trial because if we’re up there in court and we have one interpretation of the statute, and the judge actually agrees that our interpretation of the statute is better, but the government has a different interpretation… the government still wins.”

The Need for a Containment Policy

Chenoweth calls for a containment policy to rein in the administrative state, comparing it to an “untamed beast.” He suggests constitutional guardrails are necessary to prevent agencies from overstepping their bounds and infringing on civil liberties. This policy would involve judicial actions and legislative reforms to ensure agencies operate within their legal limits.

As articulated by Chenoweth, the NCLA’s mission is to restore constitutional order by challenging the administrative state’s overreach. This effort requires a multifaceted approach, including legal battles in the Supreme Court, broader public awareness, and legislative action.

The aim is to create a government that respects civil liberties and operates within the bounds set by the Constitution.

As Bannon succinctly says, “That’s the way you tame the beast: put it on a leash first, and then we’ll figure it out later.”

For more context, watch the full discussion: