Hi Paul,

You seem to be thoroughly dis connected with the point of the OP. (But I am glad that in a round about way you answered my question!)

dmacmanes said "We are finding our way to Christ and using our Spiritual gifts to bring others to Him! He will take us home in His, perfect, time. Jesus is coming back, soon, for the remainder of His Church! This is known as the 'rapture' of all His remaining believers in His, appointed, time. We will be 'caught up' to meet the Lord in the air. His Second Coming will follow the seven-year tribulation, on earth, when the, global, Antichrist rules the world. He will gather the remnant of His believers. Praise be to God for His plan of salvation! Come back Lord Jesus!"

I simply was letting him and everyone else who peruses this forum post that I don't believe what he says. If you go back and look at the back and forth between myself and dmacmanes you will notice I make my case to a few things he says.

You see you and dmac both suffer from the same illness. You both think that your view of the scriptures are the true 'only' last word on the narrative.

I appreciate your zeal and unbending faith in what you consider to be truth but to be honest, you are not very good at evangelizing if all you can do is basically throw some scripture verses at someone and tell them they will roast and toast if they don't believe like you.

Here are a few facts, 'YOU have no idea what happens to anyone when they die.' You may 'believe' so and so might happen or have 'faith' that so and so might happen but at the end of the day you and I are the same in that neither of us knows what's going to happen to anyone after they die.

Also there are plenty of other thoughts (belief systems) on Christ's relationship yo mankind from folks like Christian Universalists or those who are full prederists (look that one up 😉 ) who totally believe in Christ's death, burial and resurrection, but they just don't believe in the same evangelical 'have to do so and so to escape eternal torment' mentality that you and dmac seem to share. And you seem to not want to address the Calvinist thought that if one is chosen by God he or she 'can not reject him.' Even if they thought that they wanted to.

Lastly, for you to have never met me (or even talked with me for any amount of time) to allude that I am somehow going to a place of torment is absolutely irreverent at best and you really should repent for this type of accusation.

Lastly I hope you have a good rest of your weekend and remember not all believers in God believe the same as you. 😀 

Sal

I misspelled preterist 🙄 Since i had to edit I might as well define it:

Sally,
I appreciate the kind words and your candor. However, at university I studied every major religion in the world along with their belief concepts. Four years at a Catholic university. That alone does not make me anything, just better informed. As you appear to be unwavering in your stance. I provide the words of Jesus when he was speaking to his disciples.

John 14:6 (KJV) Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

How do you believe in God but refuse the ONLY way to get to God the Father?

Hermeneutics is defined by Stanford, "Hermeneutics is the study of interpretation. Hermeneutics plays a role in a number of disciplines whose subject matter demands interpretative approaches, characteristically, because the disciplinary subject matter concerns the meaning of human intentions, beliefs, and actions, or the meaning of human experience as it is preserved in the arts and literature, historical testimony, and other artifacts." Citation : George, Theodore, "Hermeneutics", The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy (Winter 2021 Edition), Edward N. Zalta (ed.), URL = .

As to your position, "I appreciate your zeal and unbending faith in what you consider to be truth but to be honest, you are not very good at evangelizing if all you can do is basically throw some scripture verses at someone and tell them they will roast and toast if they don't believe like you."

2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV)
All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Romans 10:16-17 (KJV) 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. So if you do not believe the word of God as written how do you think you will escape judgment for unbelief? Like I said, " It's your choice." God will NOT send you to Hell you will send yourself.

John 3:18 (KJV)
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

As to empirical evidence you state, "Here are a few facts, 'YOU have no idea what happens to anyone when they die.' You may 'believe' so and so might happen or have 'faith' that so and so might happen but at the end of the day you and I are the same in that neither of us knows what's going to happen to anyone after they die."

I would direct your attention back to scripture. Matthew 10:28-33 (KJV) 28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. 29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father. 30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows. 32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. 33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

Revelation 21:8 (KJV) But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

As for your allusion to Calvinism, "And you seem to not want to address the Calvinist thought that if one is chosen by God he or she 'can not reject him." The thought that only predestinated elites will go to heaven is easily disproved by Paul the Apostle and Jesus. Everyone has a freewill to choose. God knows who will choose Jesus.

John 10:14-17 (KJV) 14 I am the good shepherd, and know my [sheep], and am known of mine. 15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd. 17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

Romans 10:9-13 (KJV) 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

To provide an example with clarity I submit the character Nicodemus. Jesus provides simple understanding.

John 3:1-16 (KJV) 1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: 2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. 9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? 10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? 11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you [of] heavenly things? 13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, [even] the Son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

The condensed review is that ultimately you decide what happens to you. I will place "my illness" and stedfast belief in Christ and the Bible over your, "remember not all believers in God believe the same as you," when each of us takes our last earthly breath.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (KJV) 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Have a great weekend.

Hi Paul,

If we keep this up someone will hijack this thread and make it into a book.

Your spunk is admirable.

No matter what I say, you will find a scripture to twist into your position.

You Said: "As to empirical evidence you state, "Here are a few facts, 'YOU have no idea what happens to anyone when they die.' You may 'believe' so and so might happen or have 'faith' that so and so might happen but at the end of the day you and I are the same in that neither of us knows what's going to happen to anyone after they die."

I would direct your attention back to scripture. Matthew 10:28-33 (KJV) 28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. 29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father. 30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows. 32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. 33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven."

You just made my case. 🤣 

I appreciate your view, but it is your view.

P.S. any one who reads this and is somehow afraid because you don't believe like Paul, do not worry. We have a loving Father.

Sal

Happy Thanksgiving Sally,
Praying for you as promised. Hope you have a wonderful day.
Paul
John 14:6 (KJV)
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.