Hi Paul, the problem you have with that argument is that the 'LAST DAYS' has been touted for the last hundred... oh 'wait' last many hundreds of years. You gallantly quote scripture, that to be honest has nothing to do with our current state of affairs. You may very well believe that it does but there is no substantial evidence that Jesus or the Apostles were ever talking to anyone other than their contemporaries that were there at the time.
As neither of us know who the other is, as we live in an internet subdivision, I'm taken that you could say I'm a scoffer walking after my own lusts. What lusts? How am I a scoffer? I just pointed out that the evangelical Christian way of seeing things can and will be questioned.
Man up, let's have a debate.
Sally nov 13
Good evening,
First, as a point of relevance, we must identify the context of scripture. Some peope use scripture to beat over a person's head to make a point. Thus, they cherry pick a verse. So at issue is God's words not mine. 2 Peter 3:3-4 (KJV) 3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as [they were] from the beginning of the creation.
The scriptures are speaking to Christian believers about "the day of the Lord" as I read the whole chapter about the return of Jesus. A person does not have to believe in Jesus Christ to discuss this but it would be better.
Those scriptures came from the 1611 Authorized aking James version of the Bible. I personally believe the Bible and have accepted Jesus Christ as my personal Savior. Therefore, this is about a relationship between me amd my creator. The reason I know where I came from and who I am is because God's word tells us.
John 1:1-5 (KJV) 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
So Sally, to have a qualified conversation: do you believe the Bible is God's word? Do you believe that Jesus Christ was born of a virgin, had a ministry approx 3 1/2 years and died at 33 on a cross at Calvary for you and me, in essence for the who,e world. And God raised Jesus on the third day. Know now that Jesus loves you. No matter what you believe, he loves you. It's a relationship. I'm not calling you a scoffer, i am demonstrating how history is proven through the Bible.
Jesus cares about your soul. I care about your soul. The Lord has a plan for your life. Do you want to know what that is? Ask him. Call on him. Tell him you do not understand all of this but want to. He will answer you.
James 1:5 (KJV)
If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all [men] liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
Hope you have a good evening.
Hi Paul, you said
'So Sally, to have a qualified conversation: do you believe the Bible is God's word? Do you believe that Jesus Christ was born of a virgin, had a ministry approx 3 1/2 years and died at 33 on a cross at Calvary for you and me, in essence for the who,e world. And God raised Jesus on the third day. Know now that Jesus loves you. No matter what you believe, he loves you. It's a relationship. I'm not calling you a scoffer, i am demonstrating how history is proven through the Bible.'
So Paul, I do believe there is a historical significance to the scriptures. I tend to think that I really don't need to wander into your idea on the subject of if I believe in what you say the scriptures say or what you think they mean.You believe what you want and let me do the same.
So much of Christianity has been fraught with mindless following of truly well meaning men that have missed the mark that I'm laughing that we are even having this conversation. What I would propose is that you tell me if I don't believe in your version of what Christianity/Christ/God is, what is going to happen to me?
Unfortunately, it is not my version it is the Lord's version. Webster's 1828 states the word Grace is defined: "Appropriately, the free unmerited love and favor of God, the spring and source of all the benefits men receive from him.NWAD GRACE.4" the Lord's version provides you free will to accept or reject his mercy and grace. He is a loving God but also a God of Justice. His word states, "Hebrews 9:27 (KJV)And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:" Therefore, you choose it's your decision. Thank you for a civil discussion.
Hi Paul,
That is the de facto evangelist go to. You never want to say it. You will not answer my question 'What I would propose is that you tell me if I don't believe in your version of what Christianity/Christ/God is, what is going to happen to me?'
Once to Die then after the judgement is not an answer. Bible verses and talk of love and forgiveness and grace and judgement are all well and good. You say I have the free will to accept or not. Arminianism... The Calvinist would argue with you until the end of time, they would say we are all predestined. Look up TULIP if you don't know what it means.
You will not answer the question 'What I would propose is that you tell me if I don't believe in your version of what Christianity/Christ/God is, what is going to happen to me? because the answer is too repulsive to you. If you can skirt the subject all is well, but I'm not letting you off that easy. You want to serve a loving God, so tell me what happens to anyone that doesn't believe the same as you?
If you want to serve a vengeful God, better mount up friend cause the line of what is or isn't acceptable is pretty shaky!
But, have a good day tomorrow!
Sal
P.S. Because Websters said it don't make it so 😀
Sally, it is not just you but all who rejects God's free gift of accepting Jesus Christ. Not my words his words. This will be your future. This is not an allegory.
"Luke 16:19-31 (KJV) 19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that [would come] from thence. 27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
2 Peter 3:9 (KJV)
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
I have prayed for you that God would open your spiritual eyes. Our prayer group will be praying for you. It's still your decision. You own it.