Crisis at the NSC: Breaking Down the National Security Council’s Mess and President Trump’s Plan for Change Part 2

In a revealing two-part interview on Wednesday, WarRoom host Steve Bannon, national security expert Ezra Cohen, and former senior official Josh Steinman discussed their perspectives on America’s national security apparatus and the ongoing battle against what they termed the “Deep State.”

Watch a quick clip of the conversation:

Josh Steinman Details How We Go About Taking On The Deep State @JoshuaSteinman pic.twitter.com/IucUKrhWmi

— Bannon’s WarRoom (@Bannons_WarRoom) January 23, 2025

Bannon kicked off the second part of this conversation by expressing his concerns over the nation’s state, as well as the current political climate and national security risks. "How can the country be safe when you have these career bureaucrats still pulling the strings?” Bannon asked.

Ezra Cohen, who worked closely with General Michael Flynn during the early days of the 2016 Trump administration, weighed in on how the National Security Council (NSC) had been staffed in previous years. "When we came in with General Flynn, we had a team of political appointees who were committed to the president’s agenda,” Cohen explained. "But in the current environment, the staff is too entrenched in the bureaucracy, and they are not doing what’s in the best interest of the American people.”

Cohen and Steinman point out that one of the biggest hurdles Trump ran into was resistance from the intelligence community and the larger bureaucratic system. “There were still so many people from the Obama administration in key positions, and we didn’t have the political appointees we needed to carry out the President’s vision,” Steinmann explained. “We should’ve had more than 35 appointees—we really needed 60—but the swamp pushed back.”

Bannon responded to this, asking a tough question: "How do you go to sleep knowing that the deep state is controlling the narrative and undermining the security of the country?” Cohen’s response highlighted the importance of having people who understand the workings of the intelligence community in key positions of power. "The key is to control the mechanisms from day one,” Cohen explained. "You can absolutely get a grip on things, but you need people who understand the system.”

Steinman, reflecting on his time working in national security, acknowledged that while getting rid of entrenched interests is tough, it’s not impossible. "If you understand how the intelligence community works, you can take control. The problem is that Washington has been grooming these career bureaucrats for decades, and they are loyal not to the president, but to their own interests,” Steinman said.

In discussing their plans for reform, the group expressed confidence that the Trump administration in a second term, would be better positioned to take on the Deep State. "We had some victories in the first term, but there’s still much work to be done,” Bannon said. "We know that if we take control of the government’s agencies and get the right people in charge, we can reset the national security priorities.”

The conversation turned to the challenge of reforming institutions like the CIA, the FBI, and the Department of Homeland Security, which they believe have been weaponized against the president’s agenda. "If you send someone in to get intel on something as simple as breakfast foods, the CIA will lead you down a rabbit hole to obscure information,” Bannon joked, but with an underlying point: The bureaucracy thrives on obscuring truth and complicating simple tasks.

Cohen reiterated the importance of political leadership in national security, emphasizing that without the right leadership, even the best staff cannot achieve results. "Good leadership comes from the top,” Cohen said. "We need people who are politically aligned with the president, who understand the bureaucracy and can take action quickly.”

For more context, watch part two of this two-part interview from Wednesday’s WarRoom: