On Wednesday’s WarRoom, Steve Bannon opened up about the early turbulence in the 2016 Trump administration, specifically focusing on the contentious removal of General Mike Flynn from his position as National Security Advisor. Bannon’s perspective gives a rare insider look at President Trump’s challenges in trying to reshape the national security apparatus and how Flynn’s removal fit into a larger pattern of resistance from the so-called "Deep State.”

Bannon began by highlighting the fundamental nature of any presidential transition—particularly when a new administration steps in with fresh faces and ideas. "When a new president comes in, it’s a change of command,” Bannon said, noting that this shift in leadership was particularly evident in the National Security Council (NSC). "You relieve the watch,” he explained, meaning that the incoming team must take stock of the U.S. military’s global footprint and reconfigure how America defends itself.

But Bannon made it clear that this transition wasn’t as smooth as it should have been. "You get to learn the decision-making process of how America defends itself,” he said. "And that’s where things got messy.”

One of the primary tensions Bannon described was the scale of the NSC under President Trump, compared to its size under past administrations. "The National Security Council under Reagan had about 25-30 people. This was the largest at 20…I think it had gotten up to 25,” Bannon recalled. Reagan’s NSC was streamlined, focused, and intent on clear-cut policies—like defeating the Soviet Union, which Reagan famously labeled the “evil empire.”

But in Trump’s time, the NSC was a far more bloated entity, with around 292 positions. "Mike came back that day with a stack of papers,” Bannon said. Flynn had requested to look into the NSC’s organizational structure, but he was shocked at what he found. Bannon went on, "I didn’t ask for the entire National Security apparatus or the Pentagon. I just asked for the NSC,” underscoring how the scope of the issue was even bigger than they initially anticipated. A shocking 70-75% of the NSC positions were "detailees”—staff borrowed from other parts of the government, leaving the NSC operating with an overwhelming influence of bureaucrats and career civil servants.

Bannon’s criticism didn’t stop at just the size of the NSC. He pointed to the entrenched "fetishes” within the system that hampered progress. "The two fetishes you see inside the government are the post-war international rules-based system and the interagency process,” Bannon explained. These, according to him, were the driving forces behind the inefficiency and slow-moving nature of the U.S. government’s foreign policy decision-making. Bannon painted a picture of a government structure resistant to change, with unelected officials working behind the scenes to undermine President Trump’s agenda.

"What they wanted was for everything to be watered down, negotiated, and agreed upon by all the agencies,” he said, referencing how the so-called "Deep State” worked in unison to blunt any drastic shifts in policy. The result, according to Bannon, was that outsiders like Trump and Flynn were fighting against a system that didn’t want to relinquish its power. "That’s how it rolls,” Bannon added, calling out the media narrative that often portrayed Trump’s team as inexperienced and clueless. "The Washington Post, Rachel Maddow, David Ignatius—they love to push that line. ‘These Trump people don’t know what they’re doing,’” Bannon said, emphasizing the media’s role in shaping the public’s perception of the administration.

Despite the bureaucratic challenges, Flynn’s approach was clear: he wanted to reform the NSC and cut through the red tape. Bannon recalled a pivotal moment when Flynn came back from a meeting with Trump, holding up his organizational charts. "I said, ‘Mike, we don’t even have a deep enough bench,’” Bannon remembered. They were starting from scratch, and there was no time to waste. "We had to get focused,” he said, pushing Flynn to streamline the process.

But Bannon’s reflections take a darker turn when discussing Flynn’s eventual removal. "That’s when they removed Mike Flynn,” Bannon stated flatly. He made no bones about his belief that Flynn’s ousting was part of a larger, orchestrated effort. "It was totally drummed up,” he added, echoing Trump’s sentiment that Flynn’s downfall was the result of political forces at play, not misconduct.

For more context, watch Bannon on Wednesday’s WarRoom: